A new consultation on the long planned Bakerloo line extension has opened today, and is seeking views on the tunnel route, the location of worksites and potentially extending the line beyond Lewisham.

People are also asked for their views on suggested names for the two new Tube stations on Old Kent Road.

The first proposed new station is at the junction of Old Kent Road and Dunton Road, where the Tesco superstore is, and could be named Old Kent Road or Burgess Park. The second station could be either Old Kent Road or Asylum as it will be at the junction of Old Kent Road and Asylum Road.

Sadly Tubey McTubeface is not an option.

This latest consultation follows feedback given in previous public consultations in 2014, which focused on analysis of the route options, and in 2017 which highlighted potential station and shaft locations.

The new consolation is looking at a number of issues.

There are plans to merge the two existing tube entrances at Elephant and Castle into one new entrance. It would be built as part of the planned upgrade of the Northern line ticket hall, and delivered as part of the proposed new shopping centre development. That would also make the interchange with the Thameslink station easier.

TfL’s tunnel route proposals, which include a shorter, quicker route between Lambeth North and Elephant & Castle, are included in this consultation for the first time.

The location of the primary and secondary tunnelling work sites. Having considered a number of options, TfL’s preferred primary work site is at New Cross Gate. That would also see the existing Sainsbury’s store close during construction, and that might be more contentious as Sainsbury’s are planning their own development on the site.

TfL is also proposing a secondary work site as part of the ‘Old Kent Road 1’ station site. Using the site in this way could reduce the amount of time it takes to build and open the extension. However, to do so, TfL would need the whole site, and the Tesco supermarket and petrol station could not remain on the site during construction.

One major change is that where the new tunnels were expected to run from Elephant and Castle to Lewisham, it will now run from Lambeth North instead. A new tunnel would be dug between Lambeth North and E&C which shortens the tunnel length, and hence passenger journey times.

While that also makes it easier to keep E&C station open during the extension works, the connection between the old and new tunnels at Lambeth North is likely to see the line closed for a couple of months at some point in the future. Depending on the final plans for the junction point, that could see the disused tunnel repurposed as additional storage for trains.

The end of the new section of line is proposed as the Wearside Road Council depot site, where empty trains would be stabled.

There is also talk of a possible further extension of the route beyond Lewisham to Hayes and Beckenham Junction in Bromley, involving the conversion of a Network Rail line. That has always been part of the longer extension plans, so the consultation at this stage is likely to be more about protecting the option for the future rather than building the extension into a dead-end hole that can’t be extended later.

Subject to funding and design development TfL could apply for permission to build the extension through a Transport & Works Act Order in 2023.

The consultation is open here, until 22nd December 2019.

TfL is also holding 11 public exhibitions over the next few weeks.

Saturday 19 October 2019 (10am – 4pm) Lewisham Shopping Centre, Central Square, Molesworth Street, London SE13 7EP

Saturday 26 October 2019 (10am – 4pm) Elephant & Castle Shopping Centre, Lower Floor, New Kent Road, London SE1 6TE

Thursday 31 October 2019 (2pm – 8pm) Lewisham Shopping Centre, Central Square, Molesworth Street, London SE13 7EP

Saturday 2 November 2019 (10am – 4pm) Goldsmiths, University of London, The Refectory (ground floor of the Richard Hoggart building), 8 Lewisham Way, New Cross, London SE14 6NW

Saturday 9 November 2019 (10am – 4pm) 231 Old Kent Road, London SE1 5LU

Monday 11 November 2019 (5pm – 9pm) Pilgrims’ Way Primary School, Tustin Estate, Manor Grove, London SE15 1EF

Wednesday 13 November 2019 (2pm – 8pm) Elephant & Castle Shopping Centre, Lower Floor, New Kent Road, London SE1 6TE

Monday 18 November 2019 (3pm – 8pm) Goldsmiths, University of London, The Refectory (ground floor of the Richard Hoggart building), 8 Lewisham Way, New Cross, London SE14 6NW

Monday 25 November 2019 (5pm – 9pm) Pilgrims’ Way Primary School, Tustin Estate, Manor Grove, London SE15 1EF

Thursday 28 November 2019 (2pm – 8pm) 231 Old Kent Road, London SE1 5LU

Wednesday 4 December 2019 (10am – 4pm) New Cross Learning, 283-285 New Cross Road, London SE14 6AS

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13 comments on “Bakerloo line extension seeks to go beyond Lewisham
  1. Sykobee says:

    Nice of TfL to consider the lucrative future disused tube station and tunnel tour industry in this extension work.

  2. Richard Ash says:

    “The new consolation is looking at a number of issues.” It may be a consolation, but I suspect you meant consultation …

  3. Williams119 says:

    With the alterations to the tunnel alignments between Lambeth North and E&C, I wonder if there will be any impact on the London Road depot? Given all the development in the local area I’m surprised that TfL aren’t planning on relocating the depot further out and selling off the land!

  4. James says:

    To be honest, if they are going to build a rail tunnel under south London and link it to Hayes, it would be a waste to dig it to Toy town tube guage.

    Far better to dig it to mainline guage and link it up with the Watford DC Line. That’d provide far more capacity.

    It’s a wasted opportunity otherwise.

    • ianvisits says:

      How much would it cost to retunnel the bit under central London, including rebuilding all the station platforms and access routes to cope with the increased passenger numbers?

    • Matthew Hodgson Barratt says:

      So replace 113m trains with 121m long trains with less destinations and more potential for delays? You’d have to look at complete reconstruction of the exitsting underground stations to handle any increase in frequency over the existing 8tph.

    • James says:

      Just stick it three miles of extra tunnels under the Kingsway to Euston.

      There you go, Mainline capacity all the way from Watford to Hayes.

    • ianvisits says:

      So that’s around £4 billion for the tunnels and new stations.

  5. David Winter says:

    Looks like an outbreak of commonsense and wisdom to me.

    In parallel, perhaps it’s time to look at the Thameslink line through Camberwell, and redesign the track layout to UP-UP-DOWN-DOWN, allowing local stations to be erected to served the Up and Down local tracks, while through trains use the centre pair.

  6. Gavin says:

    A lot of local opposition to this in Beckenham, the loss of direct access to London Bridge / Cannon St, increased TFL season tickets compared to South Eastern, and the pain while the line is adapted being key, as well a few concerns the tube may invite undesirables from Lewisham to visit more easily.

    Personally I feel the benefits of being on the tube map, and the better frequency and onward connections throughout London make it a no brainer!

  7. Councillor Nicholas Bennett Mayor of Bromley says:

    For Bromley residents there is no gain. We already have a perfectly good service into London Bridge, Cannon Street and Charing Cross, where those wanting the Bakerloo Line north can connect.

    The extension from the Elephant and Castle makes great sense providing a new rail corridor but for those south of Lewisham it means the end of the link to the city, the replacement of full size trains with up to 12 cars, by tube size trains with a maximum of 7 cars. Seating capacity would be dramatically reduced even on the basis of present stock. With new walk through tube trains the seating would be further reduced.

    TfL argue that there would be a greater frequency but experience of the current Bakerloo is that trains north of Queens Park are less frequent than on the core section and residents out in Hayes and West Wickham suspect that they would not get the frequency that the Lewisham -Queens Park section would receive.

    From the end of 2021 the DfT is proposing to remodel the Mid Kent service with two trains an hour to Victoria in place of the Cannon Street service as part of the plan to remove as many conflicting train paths as possible on the SE Network Rail lines.

    • A New Beckenham station user says:

      The multiple connections that a new tube service would provide will give benefits that dwarf the currently slow and infrequent mainline metro service into a Zone 1 terminus. It is also worth considering the advantage to many (including myself) of removing the need to pay a south eastern and a TfL fare.

      I am sure that it will inconvenience a minority that currently use the line to commute into Cannon Street and Charing Cross and go no further but this cannot be allowed to hamstring overall connectivity in the area. The loss of a London Bridge stop on the service for Northbound Thameslink connectivity is mitigated by the interchange at Elephant & Castle and Southbound connectivity via the Lewisham interchange albeit I expect this would be a minority of users.

  8. Mosman says:

    We need something into Bromley South. It’s great getting into Victoria but nothing goes to Lewisham or London Bridge.

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