Plans to extend the Bakerloo line down towards Lewisham could be thrown into doubt if a rival proposal to run it via Canary Wharf gets wider support.
The proposal comes from the Canary Wharf Group who raised the matter in an objection to a large property development on the other side of the river, at Canada Water.
A development is being planned there to sweep away the existing shopping centre and rebuild the entire area as a large scale development with a lot of housing. Canary Wharf Group noting that it’s just one stop away from them on the Jubilee line are concerned that the Jubilee line wouldn’t be able to cope with the huge influx of residents.
They’re either objecting to the current plans, based on what they say is a flawed transport analysis by the developers or seeking alternative ways of boosting transport links in the area.
In a letter to Southwark Council, which is overseeing the development application at Canada Water, Canary Wharf Group said “we would like to remind you of our previous proposal to extend the Bakerloo line from Elephant & Castle to Charlton via Surrey Quays and Canary Wharf,”
That plan also popped up on a draft transport strategy from Greenwich Council which has long wanted to see improved tube and, more dubiously, DLR links into the borough.
Although Lewisham Council is supporting the current proposed Bakerloo line extension via Southwark, they also commissioned a study in 2010 that looked at a suggestion of extending the Bakerloo line via Canary Wharf, so long as it ran via the Old Kent Road as well.
That was costed at just under £2 billion at the time.
A few respondents to the Bakerloo line extension commission also suggested extending it via Canary Wharf, although the bulk of the submissions supported TfL’s own plans to run it towards Lewisham instead.
However, in these days, transport extensions tend to be funded when developers are willing to pick up the bill, as at Battersea, and Canary Wharf Group noted that the Canada Water development is comparable in scale, so should receive a similar level of transport improvements.
The arrival of Canary Wharf’s spoiler certainly explains Southwark Council’s recent, and rather odd decision to set up a petition to support the existing TfL proposal to run the Bakerloo line extension down to Lewisham.
Although Canary Wharf’s main concerns are to avoid increased congestion on the western side of the Jubilee line to Canada Water, their alternative proposal to extend the Bakerloo line to Chalton could be achieved in part with an extension of the Jubilee line.
When it was built, the Jubilee line station at North Greenwich included some minimal provision for an extension towards Charlton and Woolwich in the future. That is now seen as unlikely with the arrival of Crossrail, but a planned housing development at Charlton could see that extension put back on the planning table.
If a developer is willing to pick up the bill that is.
It will not happen. As it’s impossible because the Elizabeth Line will soon start serving Canary Wharf when the Abbey Wood branch opens next year and the Jubilee Line and Docklands Light Railway already serves Canary Wharf. So yes Bakerloo Line extension via Canary Wharf will not happen.
I would of commented about this on Facebook but I got a temporary ban for about a week. Don’t ask me why I got the 7 day ban on Facebook.
Syntax?”…would of commented…”!
From what I saw, the last time I was in Canary Wharf. They’re on the building the new Elizabeth Line there for Crossrail and for TFL. Not for the Bakerloo Line! The Bakerloo Line will be extended from E&C all the way to Lewisham railway station, where it can share track with National Rail services or take over the Hayes Line which will cost £3.1b. It’s expensive!
I agree. Charlton ain’t for from Woolwich. He who wants rapid transit should use the nearby Liz Line
Don’t make me laugh. Canary Wharf already has enough transport links, and Canada Water is already well served. South-east London is poorly served and deserves what has been denied for too long.
Indeed.
When is the new ‘old’ Bakerloo line entrance opening at Waterloo?
I just wish they would get on with *something* at the end of the Bakerloo. Enough talk!
While the sneaked out delay in opening of central section of Crossrail is a hugh disappointment it’s still a fact that once it opens I can’t see much of a case for long extensions of tube sized lines especially given how this summer demonstrated how the lack of air conditioned trains makes these lines almost unbearable!
Anyway it’s not as though south east London in not short of railways and a far better option than extending Bakerloo Line to places like Bromley/ Hayes would be to extend Southeastern lines in new Crossrail tunnels perhaps linking Southeastern to Euston Watford DC Overground?
As for Bakerloo Line extension via Old Kent Road would bring it close to Canada Water and thus further extension to a new interchange which needs to include longer platforms for Overground could be combined with the redevelopment especially if funding from development is obtained .
As for Canary Wharf that development is expanding with the Wood Wharf development and so a new station could be justified together with extension to serve North Greenwich which is still dependent on just the Jubilee Line and could be done by adding an extra platform to create cross platform interchange at North Greenwich then using 3rd platform for Bakerloo Line extension to Charlton etc..
Canary Wharf group would do better to campaign for a revival of the plan to increase the frequency of the Jubilee Line service to 36 tph.
What about the extension of the Victoria Line. Will the Victoria Line also be planned to be extended in the future. Say like in 20+years time. The proposed extension could be:
From Walthamstow Central to South Woodford or Woodford. Which either Woodford or South Woodford would be upgraded as a interchange station where passengers can commute into Central London either by using the Central Line or the Victoria Line.
From Brixton to Dulwich or Lewisham/Greenwich or Croydon with interchanges to Tramlink, DLR and National Rail (including Thameslink). Aswell the extended Bakerloo Line.
With the Northern Line to extend to Battersea which is due to be completed by around 2021/22.
“Will the Victoria Line also be planned to be extended in the future. Say like in 20+years time.” <-- ask me in 20 years time.
Sounds like I have annoyed you. But maybe I need to stop speculating.
Well I don’t know if they’ll ever extend the Victoria Line because in 2011, Transport For London planned to either divert or extend the Victoria Line from Seven Sisters to Northumberland Park station where it could connect the Lea Valley Lines and the football stadium together. But somehow that’s never happened. And building and extending new or already existing lines, is really expensive because it takes a long time to plan and deliver.
Lewisham and Southwark councils have already started to play and make provisions for the extension to Lewisham Town Centre. Along the Old Kent Road opportunity area down to Catford opportunity area. TfL should stick with what they have been planning for the last 3 years or so. As we know the BLE to Lewisham will see vast regeneration and housing. I doubt TfL will push that into doubt. As well as this they have just spent 15 billion to bring a high-capacity, high-frequency line to Canary Wharf. It would be foolish to do more there and leave others out. As for Charlton, as another comment said, it’s not a short bus ride from Woolwich which, like Carary Wharf, will also receive a transport boost.
To correct myself: It is a short bus ride.
Typo
I think the bakerloo line Extension Go via
Old Kent rd -new cross -lewisham-hither green – lee-sidcup- dartford
Or to old Kent rd – new cross – lewisham – Blackheath – kidbrook – eltham -woolwich
Sorry to disappoint you Lisa but the Bakerloo Line will only go to Lewisham and Hayes via Old Kent Road and New Cross gate. TFL also has another optional alternative for the Bakerloo Line from E&C to Lewisham and Dartford via Blackheath, Kidbrooke and Camberwell but the fact is the route to Hayes is best off.
One idea seldom suggested (and no one here has suggested it) is to extend the Bakerloo line beyond Lewisham to Bromley via Grove Park. You already have a terminal station with two adequately sized platforms (Bromley North) in a populated area which is only served by one main line into Victoria (Bromley) but this hasn’t been mentioned.
TfL cannot afford any/either extension of the Bakerloo line – the sooner they realise it, the sooner people get on making alternative (cheaper) proposals.
Tube lines for short trips in London don’t work well. They do in Paris, where stations are much closer together.
A Bakerloo Line extension via Canary Wharf would only attract traffic from a few stops away. Any long distance passenger on the Bakerloo Line wanting to go to Canary Wharf will:
1. Change to the Elizabeth Line at Paddington.
2. Change to the Jubilee Line at Baker Street.
3. Change to the Jubilee Line at Waterloo.
Realistically, Lambeth North is the first station from which one could expect passengers for an extension via Canary Wharf, leaving the line almost as poorly balanced as before.
Let it go to Lewisham and beyond!